Are smart home devices from your insurance company a Trojan horse? – Stacey on IoT
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Stacey on IoT | Internet of Things news and analysis
Internet of Things
by 33 Comments
On our most recent IoT Podcast, Neil called in to our voicemail hotline with a question about a free smart home device and service offered by his home insurance company. The device is called Ting and it monitors your home’s electricity to warn you of any wiring problems to prevent fires. Should Neil be concerned that the Ting device gives his insurance company a backdoor into his smart home?
It’s a smart idea to be cautious of any free device and service provided by a third party. And every such device should be individually researched to understand both the value and any explicit or implicit costs involved. You want to ensure that it’s secure and the company has a privacy policy that you’re comfortable with, for example.
In the case of Ting, Stacey is actually using one right now. It plugs into any home outlet and uses a Wi-Fi connection to communicate with the Ting servers. Whisker Labs is the company behind Ting and it created the algorithms for the Ting sensor to detect and interpret tiny changes in electrical flow throughout the home.
The idea is if the Ting device suspects a wiring issue that could cause damage, it can alert the homeowner. In Neil’s case, he’s getting the $349 device, monitoring service, and up to a $1,000 credit to repair any electrical hazards detected by the Ting unit.
Stacey hasn’t seen any suspicious web traffic when monitoring the Ting. Additionally, we checked Ting’s privacy policy and it appears consumer-friendly.
Ting says that it only collects data “which is necessary to reliably deliver Ting service,” for example. And the device, app, and servers are subject to “regular, rigorous vulnerability and penetration tests by an independent, accredited third-party security firm.”
In light of Stacey’s use and our review of the company’s policies, it doesn’t appear there’s any nefarious motive on the part of Neil’s insurance company. There’s no evidence that any data or access to Neil’s smart home is available to the insurance company either.
Indeed, I can understand why the Ting device and year of service are being offered at no change.
It’s far less expensive for a home insurance company to give out a connected device that can prevent electrical fires than it is to pay out claims for burned-down homes.
Even if Neil uses his $1,000 credit to fix any electrical issues surfaced by the Ting, it’s still a cost savings for his insurance company.
The one downside is if the Ting detects a potential problem, I assume the insurance company would get a notification along with the homeowner. At that point, if the homeowner ignored the message, the insurer might decline to pay out a claim on resulting electrical fires. But I’m not sure why someone would ignore a potential fire hazard in their home.
Again, you should investigate any “free” connected smart home device offered by a third party. Some, like Ting, appear to offer a big potential benefit with little risk of creating a suspicious backdoor. Make sure you do your due diligence before connecting any device in your smart home, whether you bought it or not.
To hear Neil’s question in full, as well as our conversation on the topic, tune in to the IoT Podcast below.
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says
Essentially all this is is a socket tester, but with he display via the internet. So why not just purchase a standard socket tester. You get the results directly, you can take it around and test all your sockets. These sometimes produce false positive results, and false negative as well.
says
Hi Stuart. Please allow me to clarify. Socket testers are great little tools for quick checks on outlet wiring mistakes, testing to see if there is an open ground, or ensuring that an outlet is not energized before working on it. In contrast, Ting is most definitely not – and is very different from – a socket tester. It is a sophisticated combination of sensing technology and machine learning that detects precursors of electrical fire hazards throughout the home, from one outlet (it also helps detect issues with your electric utility service and helps monitor the local grid). Many years of electromagnetic research and analytics went into Ting before it ever hit the market. It would be great to connect if you’d like to learn more.
says
but does the ting pin point the culprit identified?
says
So why was this not addressed ? Or did I miss it ? Will we be required to send a master electricians receipt when repairs are done?
says
Hi Ric, I apologize for not understanding your question. If you would be so kind to reach out to us at help@whiskerlabs.com, we’ll be more than happy to answer any questions you have about Ting and how it works.
says
BUT … Whisker Labs or both the lab and my insurance company have access to a device that has access to my WiFi. That puts it on my system, and that makes it a threat. Example: a company went overboard to secure its network, but a soft drink distributor put a machine in the company lobby. The machine had access to the company WiFi in order to report via online when it was running out of drinks. Hackers gained access to the company WiFi and thus its network via the drink machine.
says
You can have a separate guest wireless network with most home routers now keeping it off your home network used by computers. If you have a smart TV, the same issues apply. Essentially you need to be sure to update firmware on your devices to be the most secure.
says
@Jay… I’m a penetration tester and security consultant by trade. No, it’s not particularly wise to put a third party IoT device on your primary home network. But most modern home wireless network “routers” allow the creation of a guest network that provides internet only access and guest isolation. That’s my personal solution. Problem solved.
says
State Farm sent me a promotion to get Ting for free. The one concern I noticed is that if Ting detects a fault of some kind you have to have an electrician come and remedy the issue. You cannot make arraignments yourself. I assume this is to allow Ting to dispatch an electrician that has agreed to provide this service. I imagine the repair would also be disclosed to State Farm. Seems all well and good unless Ting detects your whole house has bad wiring and it all needs to be replaced. Or a simple false positive causes a forced un needed repair. If you have a newer house with three wiring it probably would be fine but older homes with two wire feeds to all outlets might cause more issues. I could not find any info on how this sensor adjusts but apparently has some type of learn algorithm.
says
Hi John – Great that you are asking those questions; your interest and curiosity are welcomed and appreciated.
You can bring in your own licensed electrician; the Ting Fire Safety Team needs to be in touch with that person though when they are at your home – they monitor the signals live and advise on arcing characteristics and suspected source/device based on our AI – and also confirm that the arcing source has been eliminated when the work is completed.
Importantly, in many cases, an electrician is not needed to remediate a hazard (e.g., unplugging/discontinuing the use of an arcing device or a loose neutral requiring your utility to take action, at no cost to you, of course).
Ting does not assess wiring conditions; it only looks for hazardous arcing issues and power quality issues that can lead to a fire. Additionally, the false alarm rate is nearly zero across over 2 billion monitoring hours, 250,000 homes, and over 3,500 confirmed hazard cases.
If you’d like to share additional questions, I recommend you send a note to help@whiskerlabs.com; the Customer Care team would be happy to assist you.
says
The white paper that you linked to below (which was very interesting, thank you!) states that there were 0 false positives. Here you state that the false alarm rate is “nearly” zero. Does this mean that there have been some false positives since the data in the white paper was collected?
says
Hi Jesse, we appreciate your continued interest and great questions.
Yes, we have documented a few false positives since that paper was released last March 2022. It is a very important metric and our expectations have always been that we would see a few as the system continues to scale and learn.
As well, since my reply to your original post in March of this year, we released a new peer-reviewed whitepaper (June 1) with updated data points (annual false alarm rate of %0.0096, or %0.01 rounded up).
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230619216780/en/Whisker-Labs-Releases-and-Analyzes-Exclusive-Electrical-Fire-Data
says
This device reports to your insurance company, which puts them in a position to dictate how and when any problems found are resolved. Arc-fault breakers have a poor record of false alarms, and this device (which looks for arc signatures) may perform similarly. Without further data I would see a possibility of expensive investigations and repairs (opening up walls, etc) being required without any input from the homeowner.
says
Hi Eddy –
Some of the information I shared with John above may be helpful. I share additional information below to address your concerns, but please don’t hesitate to contact us help@whiskerlabs.com.
Please be assured our insurance partners don’t dictate how and when problems are resolved. At Whisker Labs we are well aware of the performance record of other technologies, which is one of the reasons we invented Ting. False/nuisance alarms are not an issue with Ting. Please refer to this paper: https://www.whiskerlabs.com/services/ting-performance/ which provides further data.
The homeowner and their safety are at the center of our focus. While our Fire Safety Team collectively represents the world’s most experienced electrical fire prevention experts, we have found that the homeowner is a tremendous resource, as they know their home the best. And, happily, we don’t subscribe to guessing or tearing up a home to find the source of a hazardous arcing signal.
I hope this helps!
says
Couldn’t one just replace all their breakers with arc fault? Then there’s no weak link in the notification process.
says
My house was built in the early 60s when codes were different. My house does not have a ground wire at all outlets. Does Ting find that as a fault and alert State Farm who in turn will want me to have ground wire installed which would amount to rewiring my house at the cost of $1000s. Will appreciate any advice on tis issue.
says
We have State Farm, and we have a Ting sensor. Our house was built in the 1940’s. We purchased 2 years ago, and we have a mix of grounded an non grounded circuits. TING does not detect those as faults.
says
Jordan, this is Joe from Whisker Labs, the maker of Ting. You are correct, and thank you for replying to George and supporting the conversation!
says
Ting is made by Whisker Labs. Whisker Labs number one investor is Sinovation Ventures. Sinovation Ventures is run out of offices in Beijing and Wuhan, China. The CEO of Sinovation Venetures if Dr. Kai Fu Lee. Kai Fu Lee is the co-chair of Artificial Intelligence (AI) for the World Economic Forum (WEF). He was the President of Google China. He authored the book: “AI Superpowers: China, Silicon Vally and the New World Order”. Dr Kai Fu Lee is a voice recognition expert, should we trust Ting?
says
This has more than a whiff of conspiracy and also smacks of xenophobia. Kai Fu Lee is a Taiwanese expert in AI who has worked for companies across Silicon Valley. I also found the short stories book written with Chen Quifan (AI 2041) to be awesome for folks who want to understand what’s happening in AI today through a lens of sci-fi.
Asking if you can trust a company simply because its lead investor is headed by a man who currently lives in China doesn’t really provide any evidence against trusting said company.
says
I know I don’t trust the WEF and it’s Chairman Klaus Schwab. He’s the guy that said “you will own noting and like it” among other crazy things. Dr Lee works for the WEF.
I am not a xenophobe or a white supremacist or any other label you would like to use.
Research goes a long way.
says
Plugged in stig 2 days ago and then last night heard like a loud pop and sparks shooting out and then the outlet was on fire. Unplugged that ting and not using again. I have never had an outlet do that until using ting. Waiting for State Farm to open and calling an electrician. Thank God it didn’t happen the day before because I wasn’t home and my dogs and my house could have been gone.
says
“There’s no evidence that any data or access to Neil’s smart home is available to the insurance company either.”
I realize things could have changed in the 2 years since this article was written, or maybe it depends on the insurance company. But currently, the terms for State Farm do explicitly say that State Farm has access to the Ting data “for the benefit of itself, its subsidiaries and affiliates.”
says
My home is equipped with AFCI. These can be a pain in the A** and trip due to non-arcing noise. I have had to have multiple replacements. Things like AC to DC power bricks that are fine can cause them to trip when they aren’t arcing because they may be electrically noisy in the same frequency range as arcing. This happened to me and I discovered it by trial and error by disconnecting all devices and then connecting each device one at a time on the circuit that was tripping and waiting until I identified the culprit. The power brick was fine
If Ting uses the same detection technology, they may be subject to false alarms and electrical system inspections that don’t find any problem
says
I would like to know the answer to another commenter’s question. Will my insurer be notified if issues are discovered and will my insurer need a receipt from a licensed electrician to resolve the matter? We live in a very old house and I don’t want to have to bring in an electrician for minor issues we can fix ourself.
says
I tried to install the ting device this morning. Everything looked good, but then the device reported it could not contact the server. The trouble shooting suggested sending a letter to my internet provider (Xfinity) asking that security settings be modified. This is very suspicious to me and not an acceptable solution to my issue. Has anyone had experience with this issue? Customer service said they would get back to me in two to three days. Also, not a good sign.
says
I bought into the whole thing offered through State Farm for three years with a $1000 credit to use on a repair. Personally I don’t see it as a smart device but rather one that can indicate a problem within the household of an electrical problem. That in itself is probably a useful device but why then collect all this data? I get weekly reports as well just telling me everything is great? I had a couple power fluctuations two days in a row that Ting never even recorded? I certainly don’t think I would ever pay for the service after the three years.
says
My concern is that the device will warn me of an electrical hazard, with no guidance on where to find the issue in the house. How likely am I to find this electrical issue that would need to be repaired to reinstate my insurance?
says
The service includes a visit from an electrician if warranted.
says
Hi David, Stacey is correct; if a hazard requires an electrician for mitigation, it will be coordinated closely with you by our Fire Safety Team (thank you, Stacey!).
Importantly, when you download the Ting app and install the sensor, you are also receiving a monitoring service that includes hazard location and remediation.
Note also that not all hazards require an electrician. Some require unplugging/discontinuing the use of a faulty device (e.g., an arcing electric blanket). Others require your electric utility provider to repair a fault outside your home that is sending dangerous power into your home. Regardless of the nature of the fire hazard detected, Our Fire Safety Team is with you from notification through mitigation, ensuring the hazard is properly addressed. I hope this helps!
says
I do not see a satisfactory answer to the question is State Farm notified of any issues and are you subject to cancellation if you do not resolve all issues to their satisfaction. I am becoming more uncomfortable using this device and what it reports to State Farm and to anyone else.
says
I would like to know the same thing.
says
Personally from using a Ting device for over a year, I think its not smart at detecting whole house issues.
Its more of a monitor to detect the arching that occurs in a circuit that could spark a fire. It’s not going to tell you exactly where to look for that arching. That’s what calling in a electrician is for and the $1000 credit. Its obvious other electrical fires might never be detected like a shorted appliance, or tool or a overloaded circuit that has the wrong rated breaker. I have a fairly new home and many critical circuits are ground fault and well protected. Certainly home fires happen for all sorts of reason void of any electrical issue. I would prefer a device like my smoke detected that works silently and does not need to upload data that is void of any issues. Do I need weekly reports that everything is fine? Ting seems overly complicated just to include the smart device part of it. You could easily have a simple plug in device that detects arching and alerts the homeowner through a auditory alert. I am sending my Ting back because the average 6Gb uploads a month Ting’s own estimate seems ridiculous for such a device. I am certain State Farm would receive any indication of a issue from Ting monitoring which is why they collect data. It’s just like these automobile monitors its a risk assessment device.
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